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Aviation > Owning an airplane > Re: What would ...
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Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?

by "RST Engineering" <jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 17, 2008 at 09:06 AM

This is a good time to buy, the airplane market being somewhat depressed. 
Whatever you buy, you need to be sure that it is either STCd or can be
STCd 
for autogas.  Believe what you will, the world has exactly ONE supplier
for 
a critical component of 100/100LL.  The ethanol thing will shake itself
out 
as the world braces for a sharp increase in the price of dinogas.  There 
will be a solution.  THere always has been.  Necessity, as somebody noted,

is a mother.

Skyhawk or Cherokee, whichever suits your fancy.  Parts are a little
easier 
to get for the 172; the PA28 is a little roomier.  Buy the airplane in the

WINTER.  Summer prices are 10-20% higher.

You need two critical things right off the crack of the bat.  One is an 
A&P-IA that is a mean son of a ***** but will work with you to let you do 
95% of the work on the airplane.  Ply him or her with beer, (wo)men, 
whatever to keep him or her around.  The second is a set-aside of the 
purchase money for a COMPLETE set of tools that is dedicated to the
airplane 
and not trucked to and from the air****t from home.

Have your IA go over your intended with a fine tooth comb looking for 
"stuff" that will have to be done to keep the bird birdworthy.  There will

always be something ... tires, a cracked flap panel, burned out landing 
light, all that stuff.  Set your bidding price accordingly.  If it means
an 
airline ticket for your IA and a day's wages to send him/her to the 
airplane, cheap price to pay for finding a crack in the spar that will
cost 
thousands to replace.

Having said that, and being partial to Cessna for several reasons, I'd
find 
an ancient 172 with a mid time engine and crappy paint, lousy interior,
and 
terrible radios.  Spend half your nut on the airframe itself and put the 
other half in the bank. Fly the sucker for a hundred hours or so with rips

in the seats, crackly radios, and the "laughing stock" of the air****t bums

for looks.  To hell with them.

If your budget can afford it, a hangar is one of the best investments you 
can make.  It will pay for itself in allowing you to do 95% of the work on

the airplane in a semblance of comfort.

Do the radios/instruments first.  You will have your filthy shoes on the 
carpet and seats while you struggle with that one last nut on the tray on 
the top of the stack and if you've done the interior first, you will kick 
yourself silly for tracking crap all over your fine looking upholstery
job. 
I'm partial to used radios for a couple of reasons, not the least of which

you will spend half or less on a used radio than a new one.  Don't fall
for 
the "yellow tag" trap.  All that stupid yellow tag tells you is that some 
radio shop puke ran it through its paces on the bench and it met certain 
minimum standards.  Will it crap out when the engine shakes the airplane? 
Who knows.  And don't fall for the "working when removed" line either.  No

matter who you buy it from or where it came from, buy it with an ironclad 
ten day or two week no questions asked money back (except for ****pping) 
return guarantee.  As with your IA, make friends with your radio shop. 
TELL 
them that you are doing your own work, but are more than willing to pay
shop 
labor to shake, rattle, and roll your prospective radio and find out if 
there is anything that isn't up to snuff and back up their labor rate with

some sort of guarantee.  The BEST guarantee, if you can find a radio shop 
willing to do it, is a six month guarantee that if it breaks you will pay 
actual parts cost and HALF the normal labor rate for repair during the 
guarantee period.

Personally?  I've got a pair of KX-170Bs with the associated nav heads. 
Old 
radios?  Sure, but there is a guy in Trade-A-Plane that specializes in
this 
particular model.  They've never crapped out, but if they do, I know where

to get them fixed.

One last word on radios...make absolutely sure that ALL the connectors
come 
with the radios.  If the connectors come with wires cut about six to
twelve 
inches from the connector, you may just wish to check out the various "hot

radio" lists to make sure yours wasn't "inadvertently removed" at midnight

somewhere.

Oh, notice all that yellowed cotton fabric insulation on the wiring that
is 
cracking?  Hmmm...surplus stores nationwide have brand new mil-spec
aviation 
wire for pennies on the dollar.  Might just as well do the wiring while
you 
are doing the radios.  Hint ... use some sort of clear shrink sleeving and

color code the end of each wire as you replace it.  Makes troubleshooting
a 
whole bunch easier.  Hint #2.  Download an old copy of Circuitmaker and 
Traxmaker and become familiar with making your own schematic diagrams. 
Again, makes troubleshooting a lot easier.  Hint #3.  Barrier strips and 
crimp terminals are your friends.  Again, again, makes troubleshooting...

At the same time you are doing your radios, pull all the instruments and 
send them out for overhaul.  (Nobody said this was going to be cheap.)  I 
personally prefer the Gyro House down in Auburn CA, but then again, I have

worked with them for thirty years or so.  Get advice in this ng as to
folks 
who have had good results from the various overhaul shops around the 
country.

Now your radio stack, wiring, and instruments are top notch.  Give
yourself 
a year's flying with them.  Enjoy.

Now do the upholstery.  Tear the old stuff off right down to bare metal. 
Prime the bare metal.  Paint it with the best rattlecan paint you can
find. 
Go to Airtex and look at their catalog.  They make, in my opinion, some of

the best upholstery stuff in the world.  Or, you can do what Jay Honeck
did 
and find a local upholsterer that is doing a BIG leather job and have him
do 
your seats from the leather scraps from his big job.  You will still need 
carpet, side panels, and headliner from Airtex to match your seat
color(s).

Fly the airplane for a year.  Enjoy.

If you need any of the glass replaced, now is the time to do it.  If you 
don't, drilling rivets out of a new paint job will make you cry.  Don't do

the wind****eld yourself.  It is a lousy, dirty, messy job.  Have somebody 
else crack the new wind****eld and have to replace it out of their pocket.

Want a personal N-Number?  Now is the time to do it.  My airplane was 
factory-christened N 5151 D.  In '90 it became (ham radio operators note)
N 
73 CQ.

Now find a good paint shop and have them do the painting including the new

N-number.

Oh, did you keep a logbook of all this stuff?  I don't mean the airplane 
logs.  I mean your personal logs.  Any time you spend on the airplane 
(including research and drawing schematics on the computer) is loggable 
towards your A&P.  YOu need 30 months of experience (35 hour weeks, as I 
recall) just to sit for the exam, and after that (except for annuals) you 
can sign your own work off.  What's that?  5000 hours or so?  Hell, you'll

have that halfway through the upholstery.  Your IA can sign off verifying 
your time.  This is not an absolute requirement, but the local FSDO isn't 
going to run you through the crap mill if you get the signature.

And what has all this bought you?  Not only pilot time, but knowing the 
airplane inside out.  Knowing FOR SURE that when you flip the switch, the 
lights will come on.  And you can't buy that experience for love nor
money.

Jim

(Oh, one last thing.  You DID start your engine fund when you bought the 
airplane, yes?  By now it is probably a couple of hundred hours past TBO
and 
you might want to start looking at engine parts.  You DO want to do the 
engine yourself, don't you?  {;-)

-- 
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought 
without accepting it."
        --Aristotle


<Kirk Ellis> wrote in message 
news:1ket24hvp29povgpu8vtb3h8jvl5jh7up4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
> doing a 2-way partner****p on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
> ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
> friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
> ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
> become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.
 




 76 Posts in Topic:
What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-17 07:24:52 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 04:51:03 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"benford2@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-17 05:09:33 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-17 08:25:35 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Mike Isaksen"   2008-05-17 15:49:08 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
idontwantanyspam@[EMAIL P  2008-05-17 15:57:45 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Vaughn Simon"   2008-05-17 14:01:37 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Grumman 46U   2008-05-17 09:50:14 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-17 11:20:29 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
jimp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-17 16:35:05 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 09:51:46 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Jay Maynard <jmaynard@  2008-05-17 22:57:26 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Paul M. Anton"  2008-05-17 16:23:45 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 16:39:14 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Jay Maynard <jmaynard@  2008-05-18 00:38:26 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-17 09:06:39 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Dave <bonanzaman@[EMAI  2008-05-18 22:07:45 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-18 21:18:42 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Clark <ch2@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-20 02:07:33 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Kloudy via Aviation  2008-05-21 15:41:25 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Mike Spera <mwspera@[E  2008-05-18 09:00:10 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-18 07:50:14 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Blanche <bcohen@[EMAIL  2008-05-19 16:31:54 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-18 11:28:50 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
jimp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-18 16:25:06 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Bob Noel <ihatessppaam  2008-05-18 12:27:40 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-18 11:27:48 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-18 15:36:45 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-18 12:54:03 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-18 16:15:17 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Newps <nowhere@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 14:29:18 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-18 16:41:16 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
be35@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-18 14:11:34 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-18 14:39:18 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Newps <nowhere@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 15:40:57 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Howard" <ha  2008-05-18 14:56:20 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
B A R R Y <DwightSchru  2008-05-18 18:18:31 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Newps <nowhere@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 17:22:25 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
B A R R Y <DwightSchru  2008-05-18 18:15:06 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Margy Natalie <margy@[  2008-05-18 18:32:31 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
clint <jesuslovesgeorg  2008-05-22 02:00:32 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Darrel Toepfer <spamba  2008-05-19 03:58:29 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
clint <jesuslovesgeorg  2008-05-22 01:58:34 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Frank Stutzman <stutzm  2008-05-18 21:54:31 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Newps <nowhere@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 17:29:14 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Frank Stutzman <stutzm  2008-05-19 01:28:24 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Frank Stutzman <stutzm  2008-05-19 01:34:55 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Bob Fry <bobfry@[EMAIL  2008-05-18 15:34:28 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-18 20:02:41 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Mike Isaksen"   2008-05-19 03:15:20 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-19 08:25:30 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Gezellig <nokonihi@[EM  2008-05-21 17:29:05 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
clint <jesuslovesgeorg  2008-05-22 01:57:05 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Bob Fry <bobfry@[EMAIL  2008-05-18 15:08:14 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-18 08:37:59 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Mike Spera <mwspera@[E  2008-05-20 19:54:03 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-20 22:27:48 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"dlevy" <jib  2008-05-24 21:32:05 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"RST Engineering&quo  2008-05-21 07:59:03 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"JGalban via Aviatio  2008-05-21 17:46:36 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Wing Flap" <  2008-05-22 01:54:59 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"flynrider via Aviat  2008-05-22 17:09:33 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"benford2@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-18 12:33:36 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Jay Honeck" &l  2008-05-19 11:59:33 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Darrel Toepfer <spamba  2008-05-25 18:41:27 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Jay Honeck" &l  2008-05-29 14:30:03 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Denny <k8do@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-19 04:23:44 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Lou <loupark@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-21 01:11:08 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-21 06:39:48 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"Jay Honeck" &l  2008-05-21 14:03:51 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Kirk Ellis   2008-05-21 11:01:43 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Gig 601Xl Builder <wrg  2008-05-21 11:03:39 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
John T <v73ax_nospam@[  2008-05-19 11:40:15 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"bill_hale@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-20 11:43:55 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
"bill_hale@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-21 13:48:21 
Re: What would you buy with a 50k budget?
Christoph Zierhut <chr  2008-05-21 17:49:48 

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tan12V112 Thu Dec 4 13:18:00 CST 2008.