At 20:49 27 June 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:
>Yes, glider pilots SHOULD know the rudder wag signal by heart but....
>
>Typical training scenario: Instructor has arranged with tuggie to wag
>rudder at a safe altitude so the student can actually see it happen.
>Instructor then asks student to describe towplane signals which he does
>accurately. At 1500'AGL the tug rudder wags as requested and the
student
>releases instead of checking glider.
>
>Instructor: Why did you do that? What were you supposed to do?
>Student *%&^$$$
>
>Repeat above approximately three times.
>
>Bill D
>
>
>
>"ZZ" wrote in message
>news:c5ydnYMlIPufmfjVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Ramy wrote:
>>> On Jun 26, 5:47 pm, ZZ wrote:
>>>> Ramy wrote:
>>>>> Two recent incidents which all sounds too familiar and we can all
>>>>> learn from them:
>>>>> 1 - Another spoilers out/rudder waggle resulting in premature
release
>>>>> - How many more of those we need till we conclude that the rudder
>>>>> waggle does NOT work? What happened to radio communication?
>>>>> http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20080603X00777&key=1
>>>>> 2 - Another restricted control due to unsecured item. I bet this
>>>>> caused more accidents then we know of.
>>>>> http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20080606X00809&key=1
>>>>> Ramy
>>>> I favor the rudder waggle because it works IF the pilot is and
remains
>>>> properly
>>>> trained.
>>>> I was not involved in this pilot's training and I did not witness
>>>> the accident but I spoke to the involved pilot within 2 hours of the
>>>> event. This pilot, with a Commercial Glider certificate, admitted
that
>
>>>> he
>>>> misinterpreted the rudder waggle (confused it with the rock off).
This
>>>> seems to be a common
>>>> mistake in our s****t. It is likely that on the day that he received
>his
>>>> Commercial Glider rating he would not have made this error but
>>>> subsequent training, the Flight Review, plus his own personal
>endeavors
>>>> to remain current, if any, clearly failed.
>>>>
>>>> The only mandatory review of these procedures is the flight review.
I
>>>> have begun a personal vendetta against this problem not only in
>training
>>>> new glider pilots but during all Flight Reviews. I urge all CFIGs to
>>>> emphasize this problem and I offer a couple of suggestions...
>>>>
>>>> 1. During the oral, instead of discussing the check glider
>>>> signal and
>>>> the rock off separately, I treat them as a pair of similar signals
>>>> which must be considered together to appreciate the distinction
>between
>>>> them.
>>>> 2. Just as we tell our students that a rope break or rock off
>>>> can
>>>> happen on any flight, I stress that a check glider signal
>>>> can also
>>>> occur on any flight and to be ready for all three on every launch.
>>>> 3. Show the student both signals on the same flight. I
>instruct
>>>> the tow
>>>> pilot to show the check glider signal at a safe altitude so if
>>>> the
>>>> student releases by mistake, the recovery is not difficult. Then on
>the
>>>> same flight, the tow pilot rocks the glider off just below the
>planned
>>>> release altitude. Feedback from the students and pilots in for a BFR
>has
>>>> been positive, most stating that seeing both on the
>same
>>>> flight really
>>>> underscored the difference for them.
>>>>
>>>> These simple ideas are not revolutionary and you fellow CFIGS are
>>>> probably doing this routinely now. I think if we all work a little
>>>> harder on this one, I suspect we can make a serious contribution in
>>>> lowering the incidence of this problem.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Paul Corbett
>>>> ZZ
>>>
>>> Since you know the details of this incident, any ideas if there was
an
>>> attempt to use the radio first and if it was neccessary to waggle the
>>> rudder at low altitude? Or are we just going to continue blame pilots
>>> who missinterpret the signal?
>>
>>>
>>> Ramy
>>
>> Ramy:
>>
>> Good question. There was no radio in the glider. It was a warm
afternoon
>
>> at 4200 feet with light winds. The Pawnee had just been refueled. The
>tow
>> plane was achieving less than 50 F/M into slightly rising terrain when
>he
>> used the Check Glider signal.
>>
>> Regarding blaming the glider pilot who misinterprets the signal...WHO
>else
>> should be blamed? Both signals were establish in advance for a reason.
>You
>> can bet that any tow pilot who values his skin knows the TWO signals
>which
>> may save his life. Isn't it reasonable to expect that the glider pilot
>> should also know and retain these signals as well? There are only TWO.
I
>
>> applaud this tow pilot for having the cool for using the signal when he
>> did...he could have fed the glider pilot the rope. To be clear, I am
not
>
>> siding with tow pilots here nor am I trying to hammer this glider
pilot.
>I
>> really want to focus on the training and especially the recurrent
>> training.
>>
>> That why I advocate that if glider pilots see both often enough, they
>are
>> less likely to confuse them.
>>
>> Is every 24 calendar months often enough?
>>
>> (Caps used for emphasis here.. I'm really not yelling.)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Paul
>> ZZ
>
>
>
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