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Aviation > Sailplanes, hanggliders > Re: 2 recent in...
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Re: 2 recent incidents

by Ed Downham <remove_to_reply.edwarddownham@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jun 29, 2008 at 09:57 AM

At 12:27 28 June 2008, Jim Beckman wrote:
>At 15:31 27 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>>
>>The tow pilots have all confirmed that if they had a serious issue
>>they would release me even without a wing rock if they needed to.
>
>Which is a perfectly reasonable attitude, and just what I'd
>expect.  It leaves me with another question, though, for
>the towpilots:
>
>Why would you *ever* rock the wings when you want the
>glider off, and right away?  The only reason I can guess is
>to save the rope, which seems like a pretty minor item
>when the going gets tough.
>
>I've asked a few tow pilots about this.  Some of them said
>the hell with the wing rock, they're just going to drop the
>rope.  One said that if he had time, he would rock the wings
>as his left hand was reaching for the rope drop lever, but
>the rope was probably going to go anyway.
>
>Other options?
>
>Jim Beckman
>
>

As soon as a serious problem (engine, airframe, out-of-position, etc.) 
became evident, I would expect most tug pilots to dump the rope ASAP.

If someone took a launch at our Club with their airbrakes unlocked, they 
would be dumped on the ground if it was evident (we specifically check in

the mirror on the roll for this). In the air, if the tug could maintain a
safe 
airspeed & rate-of-climb, the tow would continue until the glider was in a

position where it could make a straight-in to the airfield with full
airbrake. If 
the tug pilot was in any doubt, the glider would be dumped.

We will 'wave off' gliders if there is time/space to do so but will
_not_ use 
the 'rudder waggle' signal as it is a) easily missed/misinterpreted by a

stressed glider pilot and b) more im****tantly, booting the rudder around
at 
low height, low airspeed and high AoA is not terribly clever.

There are complications with using the radio to warn of configuration 
problems with gliders. At altitude, fine. At low level (which will
probably be 
the case with brakes out), it may mean the glider pilot taking his eyes
off 
the tug and looking for the lever, which will be in an unfamiliar
(deployed) 
position, then applying force to close it that may result in the stick
being 
pulled back a bit as a reaction...

Our procedures are based on the (continued) non-recognition of a problem 
from the glider end. The tug pilots will make every reasonable attempt to

correct this but will not endanger themselves in doing so. Having watched

incidents/accidents like this from the ground and the air, I am of the 
opinion that even with prompting (signals, radio calls, undercarriage 
warnings, etc.) the majority are too fixated to recognise what is wrong
until 
they're on the ground and the stress levels are reducing.
 




 43 Posts in Topic:
2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-25 16:17:18 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 17:04:42 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Logajan <JamesL@[E  2008-06-25 19:27:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Gary Emerson <emerson_  2008-06-25 20:07:02 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-25 21:02:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Logajan <JamesL@[E  2008-06-25 23:07:36 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Michael Ash <mike@[EMA  2008-06-26 09:51:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-26 06:00:35 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jack <jack_hallett@[EM  2008-07-17 00:35:08 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 18:21:24 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 20:33:15 
Re: 2 recent incidents
RRK <richardkaleta@[EM  2008-06-25 21:06:53 
Re: 2 recent incidents
John Smith <john@[EMAI  2008-06-26 14:20:32 
Re: 2 recent incidents
R <Nospam@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-06-26 16:25:04 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Beckman <jamesbeck  2008-06-27 13:12:54 
Re: 2 recent incidents
unclhank@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-26 07:32:41 
Re: 2 recent incidents
John Smith <john@[EMAI  2008-06-26 19:19:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-06-26 08:25:43 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Marc Ramsey <marc@[EMA  2008-06-26 09:12:52 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Bob Whelan <rfwhelan@[  2008-06-26 11:20:02 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-26 12:34:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-26 09:10:30 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"kirk.stant" &l  2008-06-26 10:24:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 10:44:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
ZZ <zzuluzulu@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 17:47:04 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"BT" <bNOtiz  2008-06-26 18:49:03 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 21:52:35 
Re: 2 recent incidents
ZZ <zzuluzulu@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 08:14:50 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-27 14:49:47 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Tinpilot <ed@[EMAIL  2008-06-27 21:57:54 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Tinpilot <ed@[EMAIL  2008-06-27 22:57:53 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Nigel Pocock <nigelpoc  2008-06-27 16:57:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-06-27 08:31:08 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Beckman <jamesbeck  2008-06-28 12:27:51 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ed Downham <remove_to_  2008-06-29 09:57:49 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 14:18:50 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Eric Greenwell <flyguy  2008-07-04 18:12:22 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ian <ian.no@[EMAIL PRO  2008-06-28 00:06:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Lavajava@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-29 18:46:59 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-07-17 08:11:11 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Don Johnstone <gpnet2@  2008-07-17 21:41:42 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Martin Gregorie <marti  2008-07-18 15:05:59 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Cats <ramwater@[EMAIL   2008-07-18 07:16:05 

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tan12V112 Thu Dec 4 21:18:12 CST 2008.