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Aviation > Sailplanes, hanggliders > Re: 2 recent in...
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Re: 2 recent incidents

by Don Johnstone <gpnet2@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jul 17, 2008 at 09:41 PM

At 15:11 17 July 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>I have heard some really good points about the rudder waggle issue.
>
>- Rudder Waggle at low speed, high AoA is more dangerous for the tow
>plane(Stall/Spin sound familiar?)
>- New signals will be just as easy to forget or get confused.
>- Radio use is a good idea although both pilots will be busy enough
>unless they have a stick mounted transmit button with a boom mic.
>- Training the glider pilot to use a pre take-off check list is smart.
>- Training the pilot to recognise signals is also a good idea.
>- Having aircraft designed that don't extend spoilers by air pressure/
>suction when left unlocked.
>- Having Tow hooks that prevent full spoiler deployment while on tow.
>(You need a little spoiler somtimes to prevent line slack)
>- Use Flaps instead of spoilers on gliders.
>
>No solutions that solve all the issues have been suggested EXCEPT
>train, Train, TRAIN and RE-TRAIN the glider pilots on this issue.
>
>I dont like the idea of changing a system for something equally as
>faulted because a few incidents have occured.
>
>Its a people problem not a technical problem that we need to solve.
>
>Any technical solution will still rely on the pilot and is prone to
>fail at that point, be it the tow pilot flicking the right switch for
>the appropriate light signals, or using a radio when the glider may
>have forgotten to bring it or not charged the batteries sufficiently,
>or changing the signal to something else and the confusion of the
>change itself.
>
>If there was a practical alternative that was trully less inherently
>faulty then I would be all for it, but the only practicle solution
>suggested so far is
>Training.....
>
>Ray

I agree it's a training problem and a technical solution is not the
answer. Technical things fail. The current system is extremely simple with
only 4 main "emergency" procedures

Loose sight of the tug - Release immediately (No exceptions)
Tug waggles its wings - Release immediately (No exceptions)
Tug waggles the rudder - Check airbrakes
Gliders flies out to left and waggles wings - Glider unable to release
The above can all be made by radio but the simple procedures above work if
radio is not fitted or has failed.

If a glider ot tug pilot does not understand these four things, and even
at my advanced age I can remember them, then further training is
indicated. If you don't understand the rules then you should not be doing
it.

I recommend the following as an essential read
http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clubmanagement/do***ents/a*****ownotes.pdf
You made need to reconstruct the link.
 




 43 Posts in Topic:
2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-25 16:17:18 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 17:04:42 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Logajan <JamesL@[E  2008-06-25 19:27:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Gary Emerson <emerson_  2008-06-25 20:07:02 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-25 21:02:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Logajan <JamesL@[E  2008-06-25 23:07:36 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Michael Ash <mike@[EMA  2008-06-26 09:51:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-26 06:00:35 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jack <jack_hallett@[EM  2008-07-17 00:35:08 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 18:21:24 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-25 20:33:15 
Re: 2 recent incidents
RRK <richardkaleta@[EM  2008-06-25 21:06:53 
Re: 2 recent incidents
John Smith <john@[EMAI  2008-06-26 14:20:32 
Re: 2 recent incidents
R <Nospam@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-06-26 16:25:04 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Beckman <jamesbeck  2008-06-27 13:12:54 
Re: 2 recent incidents
unclhank@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-26 07:32:41 
Re: 2 recent incidents
John Smith <john@[EMAI  2008-06-26 19:19:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-06-26 08:25:43 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Marc Ramsey <marc@[EMA  2008-06-26 09:12:52 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Bob Whelan <rfwhelan@[  2008-06-26 11:20:02 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-26 12:34:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Darryl Ramm <darryl.ra  2008-06-26 09:10:30 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"kirk.stant" &l  2008-06-26 10:24:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 10:44:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
ZZ <zzuluzulu@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 17:47:04 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"BT" <bNOtiz  2008-06-26 18:49:03 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 21:52:35 
Re: 2 recent incidents
ZZ <zzuluzulu@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 08:14:50 
Re: 2 recent incidents
"Bill Daniels"   2008-06-27 14:49:47 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Tinpilot <ed@[EMAIL  2008-06-27 21:57:54 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Tinpilot <ed@[EMAIL  2008-06-27 22:57:53 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Nigel Pocock <nigelpoc  2008-06-27 16:57:55 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-06-27 08:31:08 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Jim Beckman <jamesbeck  2008-06-28 12:27:51 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ed Downham <remove_to_  2008-06-29 09:57:49 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ramy <ryanetz@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 14:18:50 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Eric Greenwell <flyguy  2008-07-04 18:12:22 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Ian <ian.no@[EMAIL PRO  2008-06-28 00:06:28 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Lavajava@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-29 18:46:59 
Re: 2 recent incidents
jb92563 <jb92563@[EMAI  2008-07-17 08:11:11 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Don Johnstone <gpnet2@  2008-07-17 21:41:42 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Martin Gregorie <marti  2008-07-18 15:05:59 
Re: 2 recent incidents
Cats <ramwater@[EMAIL   2008-07-18 07:16:05 

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tan12V112 Mon Dec 1 11:09:03 CST 2008.